Cite SSRN Identifiers

Moved from Template talk:Cite SSRN § Identifiers

I propose that the following CS1 identifiers be permitted on {{Cite SSRN}}: |doi=, |s2cid=, |id=. Daask (talk) 15:30, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Template talk:Cite SSRN has eight watchers. I have moved the above post from there to here because there are more watchers here. Also redirected Template talk:Cite SSRN to this talk page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:06, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

The doi of a SSRN is the same as the SSRN number, but with a doi prefix, and leads to the same place. Is there a need for duplication? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:29, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Just a quick example taken from the first random paper I could find, SSRN 6043974 is the same as doi:10.2139/ssrn.6043974. The only real difference is that the SSRN links directly to the page, while the doi redirects to the page via doi.org -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:35, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

@ActivelyDisinterested: I think you're probably right, and the ideal scenario is to switch to {{citation|mode=cs1}}, keep the DOI and remove the SSRN. Of course, first you need to check either that the page style isn't set with {{CS1 config|mode=cs2}} or use {{citation|mode={{#invoke:Citation mode|main|cs1}}}}. Yeesh! I guess I was mostly trying to reduce editor headache when surprised that one of the CS1 templates lacks typical parameters. Daask (talk) 21:35, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

No don't do that. Use {{cite ssrn}} proper. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:57, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Thats seems a lot more confusing and unnecessary than just using cite SSRN. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:38, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

@Headbomb and ActivelyDisinterested: I'm not willing to remove a DOI from a citation just because it duplicates the SSRN identifier or because a template doesn't support it. Other citation styles, eg. APA are explicit "Include a DOI for all works that have a DOI". It's so widely used that it is very useful as an identifier, quite apart from being linked to a resolver. If {{cite SSRN}} won't support |doi= or |id=, then I won't use it for citations with a DOI. Daask (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

We aren't bound by external standards. Every arxiv preprints has a corresponding DOI, that doesn't mean we suddently need to cite those DOIs when there are better ways to cite arxiv preprints. 18:34, 29 April 2026 (UTC) Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:34, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

@Headbomb: I know we aren't bound by them, but I do think we should be guided by them, because they are the thoughtful work of professionals who are largely dealing with the same goals and issues that we are when deciding citation format. The only difference is that our output is overwhelmingly consumed as a webpage with clickable links, whereas most citation style guidelines assume print as the primary medium. I don't mean to minimize that difference, but that has no bearing here. Identifiers that are more widely used are much more useful than smaller schemes like SSRN. I know our citations aren't APA, but if our citation lacks all the information needed to create an APA citation, then the editors of APA style regard it as incomplete, and I think we should too. Daask (talk) 19:02, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Spaced comma in issue number

See these refs:

• Comfort, Andy (11 June 2025). "A railway with "people at its heart"". Rail Magazine. No. 1, 037. Peterborough: Bauer Media. p. 56. ISSN 0953-4563.
• North, John (2 November 1973). "Chipping away at a fine piece of rail history". The Northern Echo. No. 32, 245. p. 10. ISSN 2043-0442.
• "Giant railway map jigsaw". Evening Despatch. No. 18, 628. 12 February 1973. p. 21. OCLC 751646866.
• Comfort, Andy (11 June 2025). "A railway with "people at its heart"". Rail Magazine. No. 1, 037. Peterborough: Bauer Media. p. 57. ISSN 0953-4563.
• Bickerdyke, Paul, ed. (October 2021). "Tile map installed at Hunmanby". The Railway Magazine. Vol. 167, no. 1, 447. Horncastle: Mortons Media. p. 88. ISSN 0033-8923.
• "Map shows the way - 1900 style". The Northern Echo. No. 30, 924. 31 July 1969. p. 3. OCLC 6685296.

These are all taken verbatim from North Eastern Railway tile maps#Locations, and in every one of them, the issue number has an unspaced comma; but on display, a space is added after the comma which is not present in the original. Why is this, when did it start happening, and please can it be reverted. Thanks. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:16, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

29 September 2018; an artefact of Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 45 § Dashify issues too. The code presumes that comma and semicolon separators indicate that the separated values assigned to |page=, |pages=, |issue=, |volume= are lists of enumerators. There are two fixes: remove the separator or wrap the value in accept-as-written markup:

{{cite magazine |title=Title |magazine=Magazine |issue=1234}}

"Title". Magazine. No. 1234.

{{cite magazine |title=Title |magazine=Magazine |issue=((1,234))}}

"Title". Magazine. No. 1,234.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:23, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

I get that |pages= can (should?) support lists of enumerators but I'm not seeing the use case for the other parameters except as an edge cases. A reference to a single issue or volume is, imo, far more common than a reference to multiple issues or volumes. Therefore we should consider changing the default behaviour for those parameters rather than forcing the alternatives suggested above for a majority of cases. Nthep (talk) 07:53, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

deprecated archival service: closed XfD

within this category i found a closed AfD from a few years back. i think i should just ignore it, as it's basically an archive, but i was thinking maybe someone could set up a thing to exclude (prefferably only closed, if possible) XfD-related things from the category. User "Oreocooke" (speak of the sun and it shines) 04:42, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

if it matters all 3 instances have the normal page as currently live ( ) User "Oreocooke" (speak of the sun and it shines) 04:45, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Basically i see nobody touches old archives,see this category. I also don't see any reason to replace archive url with another archive url or remove that completely because the afd had served it's purpose, We have bigger fish to fry.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 17:44, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Can we just allow linefeeds in citation style 1 templates?

when I paste in a multi-line quote parameter, I am tired of getting

{{cite book}}: line feed character in |quote= at position 29 (help)

This doesn't seem useful. Dingolover6969 (talk) 07:17, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Also, nbsp, same reason Dingolover6969 (talk) 08:05, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

So don't? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 08:09, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the suggestion. Dingolover6969 (talk) 09:06, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Linefeeds are permitted before and/or after each pipe and equals, but should not be used within the value of any parameter. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:14, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Right... but I would like to use them in the value of the quote parameter. This would save me some busywork. Is there any reason we couldn't/shouldn't accommodate this in the module? Dingolover6969 (talk) 19:18, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

@Dingolover6969, Tweaking module for this purpose is not worthy at all, rather replace each linebreak with br tag. There won't be a thousand linebreak to replace, just a few for the quote parameter.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:22, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

In particular, nbsp is sometimes the right space character to use. However, I guess it would violate the last part of MOS:NBSP to use one directly, instead of the HTML or template version, since it is visually indistinguishable from a regular space. Although I'm not sure that means this templat, specifically, should definitely complain about it... Dingolover6969 (talk) 19:27, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

@Dingolover6969, You can use <br/> in line break position to prevent such error, only use in |quote=.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 17:40, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion! I am aware of that, and wish to avoid the process of replacing \n with <br/>, which can be inconvenient. (Or, rather, \n\n with <br/><br/>, technically, I guess, since a normal newline will just be swallowed by HTML — which is sometimes what I want to happen! That would save me the trouble of replacing \n with space manually.) Dingolover6969 (talk) 19:15, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

An easy workaround to this is just to place the quote outside of the template. Dingolover6969 (talk) 19:31, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Adding a line-feed does in fact break the expectations of HTML, which dictate that the content of inline tags is in fact inline and without line feeds. Stop including line feeds. Izno (talk) 23:13, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

Linefeeds are space characters. The browser, on encountering a sequence of one or more of these characters (mixed any way you like), treats the whole sequence as if it were a single space. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:55, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Is there a way for editor to (manually) indicate that an article is open access?

I'm using an journal article as a source; I've researched the article and determined that is Open Access, and the publisher provides a specific CC license (free to share, but must attribute). is there any field I can put in this Cite Journal template were I can store the fact that is open access? I want that fact preserved for posterity so I don't forget and have to do the research again. I realize I can add plain text at the end of the template, but I'm wondering if there is standard field for this ... such as the unlock icon. Noleander (talk) 14:45, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

If you have the doi, you can mark it as openly accessible with |doi-access=free. Same for bibcode, jstor, ssrn, etc. (with |bibcode-access=free, |jstor-access=free, etc...). See WP:DOIACCESS for more information. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:55, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I have the DOI, so I'll use the doi-access field. Noleander (talk) 14:59, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

If using a citation template that doesn't let you specify access, there are a number of templates to use outside a citation template; see {{Open access}} and its many alternative See alsos. Pol098 (talk) 12:31, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Also if you are using |quote=, you can use {{cc-notice}} at the end, out of citation template.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:13, 5 May 2026 (UTC)

generic author name in other languages

There are pages using sources from other languages where author parameter is populated by generic names in that language. Should foreign language generic name marked as generic or that only applies to english language. See example name. Here firstname জেলা (jela) means District and lastname প্রতিনিধি (protinidhi) means representative.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 17:33, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

If we are to believe these search results, there are 60ish articles that have |firstn=, |lastn=, or |authorn= parameters with প্রতিনিধি as all or part of their assigned value. When one of |firstn= or |lastn= has প্রতিনিধি the other parameter doesn't always have জেলা. Not obvious to me that there are enough instances of these two words to make it worth adding them to our list.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:11, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Is it possible in english wikipedia to have foreign words blacklisted as generic or each language wiki has to decide from their own language only.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 18:16, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

en.wiki could, if it were warranted, blacklist non-English words. Each wiki that uses a more-or-less current version of the cs1|2 module suite can blacklist words in their own local language.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:25, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Another generic title

Hello, another generic title that could be trapped |title=Request Rejected. Currently we have 75 instances of this. Keith D (talk) 11:24, 4 May 2026 (UTC)

Change Most Used Parameters for Report Template

Currently, the most commonly used parameters on Template:Cite report use |docket=. However, as multiple talk page discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) show, the use of the term "docket" is confusing at best. Could we change them to use |id= instead of |docket=?

For example:

To cite a report with a credited author

{{cite report |last= |first= |date= |title= |url= |work= |location= |publisher= |id= |access-date=}}

instead of:

To cite a report with a credited author

{{cite report |last= |first= |date= |title= |url= |work= |location= |publisher= |docket= |access-date=}}

and so on.

I imagine these "most commonly used parameters" are more likely to be used by those inexperienced with said parameters, so it would seem to make sense to use a term that is more commonly understood by a larger number of people and much better defined in the documentation. –Noha307 (talk) 21:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Multy-year work

I stumbled upon a work (Dio's Roman History in nine volumes) whose volumes were published between 1914 and 1927. Using cite book, I am not allowed to tag the date as |date=1914-1927. Is there a way-around solution that was already suggested in the past? Carlotm (talk) 19:39, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

I am not allowed to tag the date as |date=1914-1927 Don't use a hyphen in the date range; see MOS:DATERANGE:

{{cite book |title=Dio's Roman History |date=1914–1927}}

Dio's Roman History. 1914–1927.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:02, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

@Carlotm: An example from my own library:

• MacDermot, E.T. (1927). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. I: 1833–1863. Paddington: Great Western Railway.
• MacDermot, E.T. (1931). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. II: 1863–1921. Paddington: Great Western Railway. OCLC 55853736.
• Nock, O.S. (September 1967). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. III: 1923–1947. Shepperton: Ian Allan. 1584/387/DXX/967.

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:36, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

Very helpfull. Thanks. Carlotm (talk) 16:31, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

cookieabsent

There are, at the moment, 469 articles with "cookieabsent" in URLs. They largely appear to be journal articles, and many (at least on the first page of results) seem to have a DOI. However, some of these unusable URLs appear to be archived, as on Psychopathy.

Could/should these appear in a CS1 error category? Snowman304|talk 01:36, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

These URLs can be replaced manually. See at BDSM, This citation also contains doi link which is helpful to replace that url. Also other citations contains identifier link or atleast title and publisher/website which could lead us to any valid web address.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:44, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Sure, and so could Wikipedia Library errors (WP:WLERROR), but we track those. Snowman304|talk 22:20, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

It can be traced using a maintanence category with messege: "incomplete url with cookieabsent text".––KEmel49(📝,📋) 10:57, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026

Looking at this citation from Piri Reis, how do I resolve "CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026":

• Orhonlu, Cengiz (April 20, 1970). "Hint Kaptanlığı ve Piri Reis". Belleten (in Turkish). 34 (134): 235–254. doi:10.37879/ttkbelleten.1191525 (inactive 9 May 2026). ISSN 0041-4255.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026 (link)

The doi link is, in fact, inactive and doesn't work, but this is the DOI that the publisher gives for the article. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:39, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

You have to contact the publisher and see if they will fix the link by re-registering the DOI. I have tried this in the past and most publishers don't seem to care, unfortunately. Rjwilmsi 09:20, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Filling the "report an error" form often leads to publishers repairing the DOIs. This assume the publisher is still around though. Here it's Turk Tarih Kurumu / Turkish Historical Society, so there's a decent chance things will get patched up. It can take a while however. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 11:03, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

(On mobile) Oh, okay, that makes sense. I've actually contacted them before about releasing some materials that were public domain in Turkey under a CC license for the US, and they we were really responsive about that. This seems comparatively minor. Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 11:30, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

"Staff" as a possibly generic name?

There are lots and lots of articles that have a citation with wikitext with something like |last1=Staff. This is most commonly a citation artifact due to a term like "Staff Writer" being interpreted as a name. That being said, Staff (name) does exist as an anthroponymy article, so we'll probably have to triage these articles manually. Duckmather (talk) 06:11, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

"Staff writer" doesn't actually say anything. Sometimes a source states "staff" as author; sometime Wikipedia editors may take it upon themselves to add this, which is making a claim the source doesn't. I don't see any advantage to a reader (Wikipedia is for readers, not editors) in seeing "Staff" as author, so no need to triage, just delete. As Wikipedia documentation says, author=<!--"Not stated"--> might save editors from trying to look upo the author's name. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 11:52, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

You can still use Staff (real name) without any issue. Use dual parenthesis around Staff like this: |last=((Staff)). This will treat that text as written markup.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:21, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Proposal for Template:cite translation

{{cite translation}} Something, something, AI

I propose a new {{cite translation}} template, primarily for use with {{translated blockquote}}, to provide provenance within a single citation for a published translation and it's foreign language source.

Prior to making this proposal, I have considered the use of {{r}}, {{sfnm}}, {{unbulleted list citebundle}} and nested footnotes, but no existing template explicitly associates a provenance relationship between sources.

I have conceived of two formats and parameter sets which {{cite translation}} could utilise, as detailed in the collapsed table captioned Comparison of separate citations and combination in proposed {{cite translation}}, subject to a decision as to whether the original work or the translation should be the primary work being referenced. My preference is for the original work to be the primary work being referenced, which is showcased in the case study below and introduces the following new parameters:

|translation, |translation-type, |translation-language, |translation-date-related, |translation-publisher-related, |translation-page-related, |translation-url-related, |translation-id-related, |trans-quote-page

Case study
In pursuance of WP:DEADREF, a Naive set theory article edit which introduced two quotations was reviewed, one which was referenced but had linkrot and the other in English which was unreferenced. After an extensive search to locate another copy of the material and provide a reference for the second quotation, it became apparent that the translation provided was wrongly attributed to the original author, and was likely a Wikipedian translation of a paraphrase by a third-party. As a result the edit was reverted and replaced with a submission to distinguish between the two foreign quotations, one of which still requires a translation citation.

However, it highlighted a significant issue in translation provenance, with the misattributed English quotation being treated as authoritative in a number of academic worksheets and online resources: Editors are not provided with a citation template which facilitates, and thereby encourages, the recording of provenance of published translations; which is rectified by this proposal and example:

My preferred arrangement for {{cite translation}} conforms to the formatting of {{translated blockquote}} and has the same {{cite translation|title}} as {{translated blockquote|source}}. Hence the consolidated references can appropriately be referenced therein as a single citation, rather than as separate citations at the end of each individual quote:

Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.^[1]

[By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.^[2]]

In addition to the semantic benefit of explicitly attributing a provenance relationship between cited works, use of the {{cite translation}} template also avoids the need for a notes section, which could otherwise be used to detail the relationship, and results in a footprint reduction of 30% due to information deduplication in comparison to the use of separate citations for each of the works being referenced; as shown below:

{{<!-- author -->
|last = Cantor
|first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|date = March 1895

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|orig-date = Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|orig-date = Translation published 1915

{{<!-- author -->




|translation-date = Translation published 1915

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor

|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Written at Halle

{{<!-- author -->



|orig-location = Halle
|orig-date = Original composed March 1895

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33)
|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152)
|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33)
|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf

{{<!-- work -->

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152)
|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

{{<!-- work -->

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|volume = 46
|issue = 4
|language = de
|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]]
|publication-place = Leipzig
|publication-date = 7 November 1895
|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929
|issn = 0025-5831
|oclc = 10955667990
|s2cid = 125716327
|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|volume = 46, no. 4
|language = en
|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|publication-place = London, Great Britain
|year = 1915
|ol = OL6580010M
|lccn = 15019614 
|oclc = 817921

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|series = ''[[Mathematische Annalen]]''
|volume = '''46''' (4)

|language = de
|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]]
|publication-place = Leipzig
|publication-date = 7 November 1895
|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929
|issn = 0025-5831
|oclc = 10955667990
|s2cid = 125716327
|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X] [London, Great Britain: [[Open Court Publishing Company]]. pp. 85–136 (101–152). [[LCCN (identifier) | LCCN]] [https://lccn.loc.gov/15019614 15019614]. [[OCLC (identifier) | OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/817921 817921]. [[OL (identifier) | OL]] [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6580010M 6580010M]]

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|volume = 46
|issue = 4








|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]

{{<!-- bibliography -->



|language = en
|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|publication-place = London, Great Britain
|year = 1915
|ol = OL6580010M
|lccn = 15019614 
|oclc = 817921

|id = [''[[Mathematische Annalen]]'' (in German). 46, no. 4. Leipzig: [[B. G. Teubner]] (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33).  [[Doi (identifier) | doi]]:[https://doi.org/10.1007%2FBF02124929 10.1007/BF02124929]. [[ISSN (identifier) | ISSN]] [https://search.worldcat.org/issn/0025-5831 0025-5831]. [[OCLC (identifier) | OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/10955667990 10955667990]. [[S2CID (identifier) | S2CID]] [https://api.semanticscholar.org/CorpusID:125716327 125716327] [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]]

{{<!-- bibliography -->











|id =

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-07
|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]]
|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|archive-date = 2026-04-01

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11
|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]]
|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|archive-date = 2026-04-01

{{<!-- access -->

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11

{{<!-- access -->

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 481
|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 85
|quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 85
|quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.
|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

{{<!-- quote -->

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 481
|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
|trans-quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.

{{<!-- quote -->


|orig-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

{{<!-- contribution -->
|contributor-last = Jourdain
|contributor-first = Philip E. B.
|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain
|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

{{<!-- translation -->
|translator-last = Jourdain
|translator-first = Philip E. B.
|translator-link = Philip Jourdain
|trans-title = [https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers]

{{<!-- translation -->



|trans-title =
|translation = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|translation-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0
|translation-location = 
|translation-year = 1915
|translation-at = pp. 85–136 (101–152)
|translation-language = en
|translation-publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|translation-publication-place = London, Great Britain
|translation-ol = OL6580010M
|translation-lccn = 15019614 
|translation-oclc = 817921
|trans-quote-page = 85

{{<!-- translation -->
|translator-last = Jourdain
|translator-first = Philip E. B.
|translator-link = Philip Jourdain
|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]

{{<!-- translation -->



|trans-title =
|original = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|original-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf


|original-at = pp. 481–512 (2–33)
|original-language = de
|original-publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]]
|original-publication-place = Leipzig
|original-publication-date = 7 November 1895
|original-via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]]
|original-journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|original-volume = 46
|original-issue = 4
|original-doi = 10.1007/BF02124929
|original-issn = 0025-5831
|original-oclc = 10955667990
|original-s2cid = 125716327
|original-id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]
|orig-quote-page = 481

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor

|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band. 46, Heft. 4:1895

{{<!-- author -->
|author-last = Cantor
|author-first = Georg
|author-link = Georg Cantor
|location = Halle
|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152)
|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0
|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152)
|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33)
|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers

{{<!-- work -->
|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33)
|contribution = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre
|contribution-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|trans-contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers

{{<!-- bibliography -->


|language = en
|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|publication-place = London, Great Britain

|year = 1915
|ol = OL6580010M
|lccn = 15019614 
|oclc = 817921

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|volume = '''46''' (4)
|language = en
|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|publication-place = London, Great Britain

|year = 1915
|ol = OL6580010M
|lccn = 15019614 
|oclc = 817921

{{<!-- bibliography -->
|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]]
|volume = '''46''' (4)
|language = de
|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]]
|publication-place = Leipzig
|publication-date = 7 November 1895
|year = 1915
|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929
|issn = 0025-5831
|oclc = 10955667990
|s2cid = 125716327
|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]

{{<!-- bibliography -->


|language = en
|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]]
|publication-place = London, Great Britain

|year = 1915
|ol = OL6580010M
|lccn = 15019614 
|oclc = 817921

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11
|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]]
|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|archive-date = 2026-04-01
|url-status = live

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11
|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]]
|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|archive-date = 2026-04-01
|url-status = live

{{<!-- access -->
|access-date = 2026-04-11

|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf
|archive-date = 2026-04-01
|url-status = live

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 85
|quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.
|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 85
|quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.
|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 481
|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
|trans-quote = By an &#8220;aggregate&#8221; (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the &#8220;elements&#8221; of M.

{{<!-- quote -->
|quote-page = 481
|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.

{{<!-- translation -->
|translator-last = Jourdain
|translator-first = Philip E. B.
|translator-link = Philip Jourdain

{{<!-- translation -->
|translator-last = Jourdain
|translator-first = Philip E. B.
|translator-link = Philip Jourdain
|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

{{<!-- translation -->
|contributor-last = Jourdain
|contributor-first = Philip E. B.
|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain
|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

{{<!-- translation -->
|translator-last = Jourdain
|translator-first = Philip E. B.
|translator-link = Philip Jourdain
|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

Mattmill30 (talk) 12:41, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

I've been through this thread but one thing is not clear. What is translated work and what is original work? let's say i am citing a book written in French, i will use {{Cite book}} with all needy parameter. |title= will be in french, |url= will wrap the title. |trans-title= is only for translation of that French title to English language (Because our readers are english), I can use language=fr to classify this citation is in French. If i am citing same book (translated) in English, I will use that english title because that will be the title, I don't need trans-title because this title is already in English, nor will i mention any french title anywhere. I can distinguish contributors/authors/editors/publishers with respective parameters.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:07, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

You should cite what you see. If you have the translation you should cite that using the normal template, if you're reading the original you should cite that. If the original is from 1898 but the translation you have is from 2015 then cite the 2015 translation. Only cite the 1898 original if you have the 1898 original and not a different version. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:43, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Let's say you have a book originally written in French. These are the possibilities:

• Goscinny, René; Uderzo, Albert (April 1983) [1979]. Astérix chez les Belges [Asterix among the Belgians] (in French). Paris: Dargaud. ISBN 2-205-01150-2. C83/13017.
• Goscinny, René; Uderzo, Albert (1985) [1979 and 1980]. Asterix in Belgium. Translated by Bell, Anthea; Hockridge, Derek. Sevenoaks: Hodder Dargaud. ISBN 0-340-27753-X.

WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT applies. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:19, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Please make provisions for correct handling of infixes in last names

This issue pervades multiple templates in various languages.

The parameter lastname does not allow for correct alphabetical ordering of last names which include infixes. In German, French, Dutch (but not Flemish), and other languages, infixes are ignored; examples:
French:

1. Bois, M. du
2. Dubois, M.

Dutch and Flemish:

1. De Vreeze, M. (Flemish)
2. Devreeze, M.
3. Vreeze, M. de (Dutch)

combined:

1. Bois, M. du
2. De Vreeze, M.
3. Devreeze, M.
4. Dubois, M.
5. Vreeze, M. de

Can a parameter infix-lastname be added?

Or would it be better to instate something similar to DEFAULTSORT (used for correct ordering of pages in automated lists) for all templates that allow lastname? CvZ (talk) 13:24, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Which automated lists of citations are you thinking of? Kanguole 13:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

I don't see the problem. These names can be dealt with in citation templates by using the parameters |last= and |first= properly, e.g. |last=De Vreeze, |first=M. for Flemish and |last=Vreeze, |first=M. de for Dutch. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:49, 16 May 2026 (UTC)